After his defeat in at the Penang state election and his surprising decision not to contest into withdraw from the national party polls, speculation is rife that Gerakan stalwart Datuk Seri Chia Kwang Chye may follow in the footsteps go the way of some former strongmen and leave the party. But Chia tells TAN CHOE CHOE that he will always stand by his party

Q: Are you more relieved now after deciding not to contest?
A: There are feelings of relief, both psychologically and physically, because there are no more fixed responsibilities or duties that I need to carry out as secretary-general.

And because I've decided not to contest any national posts, there's no more pressure to strategise how to win votes, how to please people, how to campaign and how to handle underhanded attacks and unsubstantiated accusations. So in that sense, I feel very free and relaxed for the first time in over two decades.

Q: So what's the real reason you pulled out?
A: Over the last few months, some unhealthy trends have appeared in the party, and it was evident in the state election with the external interventions and the tactics that were used.
The politicking was very intense. So if I were to continue to the national level, these unhealthy trends will escalate. It'll spoil the political culture of the party. By withdrawing, perhaps it will take some of the heat off.

Q: Did you decide not to contest before or after the state party election in Penang on Sept 21?
A: Actually it was before. During my campaign, I hinted and some people understood. I had already announced that I didn't want to be a secretary-general any more.

Q: I think most people thought you meant you would be going for a higher post.
A: There is the possibility of going higher but that requires consensus. During the campaign, I said I was willing to be demoted from secretary-general to a state chairman, so that I could help rebuild the party.

We've lost virtually everything, especially in Penang. So, to rebuild the party, we should start at our base, where we began.

In a way, I've hinted that win or lose, I would not go further. If I had won, I would have concentrated all my energy in Penang.

Q: Wouldn't the fact that you're not in a leadership position affect your efforts to rebuild the party?
A: That is yet to be seen. You have people who became more powerful, or continue to be powerful and influential, even after they've retired. (Laughs)

Q: Are you referring to anyone in particular?
A: (Laughs) I'm just making a very general statement.

Q: In your recent interviews, you kept referring to this "unhealthy trend" in Gerakan. What exactly is it?
A: My remarks were addressed to members and they should know what I'm talking about.

Q: What about people outside Gerakan? Are you referring to money politics, back-stabbing?
A: (Laughs) I'm not say anything. You can say it's true, or you can say I'm denying it.

Q: How is your relationship with Datuk Dr Teng Hock Nan?
A: It's not that we cannot see each other and joke with each other or sit down for a drink and have a meeting.You can say we are still friends that way.

But, politically, we have contested against each other and we can't deny things have changed (between us). So, like it or not, we need to rebuild.

Q: We heard there was a Gerakan survey that showed that almost 60 per cent of members want to leave BN to join Pakatan Rakyat or become independent. Is this true?
A: I've only read about it in the newspapers. But I think these are all guesstimates. Be patient. Soon we'll know the feelings of the people who matter -- the delegates at the national delegates conference.

Q: What is the feeling among the delegates?
A: There have been discussions and everything, but it has not gone to the level of heated debates at official functions like the state delegates' conference.

But, of course, the feeling is there, the frustration is there, but whether it becomes an issue to be voted on is yet to be seen.

Q: What do you think should be the way forward for Gerakan? Should the party leave or stay with BN?
A: I'll say that based on the feelings of the delegates, we should have left yesterday. Based on our political ideology as a multiracial party and our ideals to create a Malaysian society, we should leave today.

But the future is in the hands of the delegates. Whatever that decision may be, we must first establish that we will adhere to it and move on from there.

Q: You said recently that Gerakan shouldn't, out of pragmatism, abandon its ideals. What exactly do you mean?
A: The question is where does idealism end and pragmatism begin?

If we keep moving the goalposts of idealism, because of having to be pragmatic, we may soon lose our idealism. But if we abandon all pragmatism, we'd definitely fail. We must strike a balance, a middle ground, while being mindful that we must not compromise on our ideals.

Q: Are you referring to Gerakan's stand in BN, that it has been compromising on its ideals, moving the goalposts to accommodate Umno?
A: In some respects, yes.

Q: After what you said about unhealthy political trends and your defeat and all these things, do you think Gerakan is still politically relevant?
A: I'm very concerned about the results of a so-called informal, for the lack of a better word, survey that was done recently.

Three questions were asked of respondents. The first was "Will you support Barisan?" The answer was "No".

The second was "Should Gerakan stay in Barisan?" The answer was also "No".

The third was "Will you support or vote for Gerakan if it leaves BN?" I was told the answer was still "No".

The answers to these questions show Gerakan is irrelevant.

These are very important questions and it's very important for us to do a proper survey or poll to find out what the answers to these three questions really are.

It's not a simple question of leaving or staying. It's a question of how to ensure that we continue to be relevant.

Q: Hasn't Gerakan done any soul-searching since March 8?
A: Maybe the timing is wrong. We're still obsessed with the party elections. A lot needs to be done. I'm not blaming anybody. I think I'm also to be blamed. I believe that even if you respect the party, you may feel that it's no longer effective.

If people no longer support us, then we'll be like an NGO (non-governmental organisation). We must not be relegated to the role of an NGO that only has a good image, good ideals, but no political relevance and cannot win elections.

Q: Gerakan has had senior people like Dr Toh Kin Woon and Dr Tan Kee Kwong leave. How about yourself?
A: (Laughs) Gerakan is the only party for me. I will remain a one-party man.

Q: So you'll die a Gerakan man?
A: I'm a one-party man but all things have to come to an end. It's a question of when.

But there's no question of me leaving at all. We've actually spent the best part of our lives building up the party, not just joining or contributing to it.

So I think it's better to keep this track record, this image, this history, than to rewrite it.

Q: It is said that the Datuk Ahmad Ismail (former Bukit Bendera Umno division chief) issue has single-handedly killed off any hopes of BN regaining the non-Malay votes in Penang. Do you think Gerakan can ever heal the wounds inflicted?
A: It'll be very tough. In politics, nothing is impossible. But, of late, Malaysians are not so forgetful, although they used to be more forgetful and forgiving (laughs). I think after March 8, they are less forgiving and they remember things longer.

Q: Is that a good thing?
A: Not good in the sense that we'll take a long time to rebuild. But good in the sense that we need to constantly remind our leaders and political parties that our society is very fragile. And we cannot afford to let anyone destroy it. It's easy to destroy but very difficult to rebuild.

Q: So should Gerakan merge with another party which shares the same multiracial platform?
A: I think for the good of Malaysians and for the positive development of politics, a merger is always an option. But let it be natural. Let it be real. Let it not be for political gains or positions or allowing people to come up politically. It should be based on the same ideals and objectives.

Q: There was talk about Gerakan joining Sarawak United People's Party sometime back?
A: Our leaders are very close and we have common ideals but, as far as I know, there was no serious discussion. But we do enjoy a good, close working relationship with them.