FRANK: Following the three-month (minimum) moratorium on bauxite mining in Kuantan, the district is slowly dusting itself off from the aftermath of this poorly regulated industry. Pahang Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Adnan Yaakob, in a record no-holds-barred 13-hour meeting with the New Straits Times’ Haris Hussain and Aliza Shah, explains what went wrong and how things will be rectified. State Land and Mines Office director Datuk Nazri Abu Bakar was called in to join the meeting, which was also held at locations worst-hit by unscrupulous bauxite miners and contractors.
Q: Why was there relatively no action on the part of the state government when problems posed by bauxite mining were clearly getting out of control?
A: Let me explain why, up to this point, I haven’t given a full explanation to the people. It is simply because I didn’t want to disrupt the plans that had been laid out by the NRE (Natural Resources and Environment Ministry) and the state government — the moratorium. Discussions on the moratorium started a few months ago and we decided on it in early November. On our part, we have our own constraints. I don’t want to play the blame game but the fact is that all the enforcement agencies, except for the PTG (Land and Mines), are under federal jurisdiction. I have acted proactively by calling the stakeholders, including the contractors, to address all the issues. I even shouted at the transporters during one of the meetings.
Q: Why didn’t you move in earlier to address the problems?
A: Why now? I was thinking to myself, but when I reflect on it, I know I did many things, but they were unsuccessful. But sadly, I never called the press. Almost everyday, I had a story to tell... but I did things quietly. There was never a time in the exco (state executive council) meeting that I didn’t discuss this issue. I even made clear bauxite would be a big problem for the state... and it is true. I could foresee this so I advised, and even threatened them (the industry players) to make them toe the line. But the problem was just so big. There is the issue of approval to mine, the contractors, transporters and the port. If they don’t heed your advice, what can you do? We imposed the laws but still we couldn’t control (the problem)... luckily, the Federal Government came in.
Q: When Kuantan folk made clear their frustrations over the bauxite-mining problem, you chose not to seek help from the Federal Government.
A: No, I had wanted to try, within our own capacity, to resolve these issues, doing it our way first. I didn’t see it pertinent for me to seek help from the Federal Government. The state government had tried to handle the issue on its own but it was a failure.
Q: What else did you do exactly then to rein in these problems?
A: We implemented 24-hour checks but that lasted two months. It was just overwhelming. The PTG, for example, has only 18 staff to oversee the whole of Pahang. We couldn’t have done much with that number.
We sought the help of other agencies, too, but the result was not as effective as we had wanted it to be.
It is more about enforcement, especially along the route to Kuantan Port. I don’t know where it went wrong... of course, the PTG cannot set up roadblocks as this is the RTD’s (Road Transport Department), SPAD (Land Public Transport Commission) and police’s purview. The issue went on for some time until the press picked it up. I really appreciate it, as without the involvement of the press, we might not have known the exact ramifications of bauxite mining. We wanted to enforce... we tried, but to no avail; we did not succeed. But things are being done properly now following the directive from the Federal Government, especially the prime minister. The state lacks manpower, with federal assistance, enforcement is effective. It was not that we procrastinated or delayed (enforcement) but it was just beyond our capacity. When we fully enforced with our limited resources for two months, the result was positive at first... then slowly we saw the repercussions. We even lost one of our PTG officers who died in an accident after his shift ended at 2am.
The delay (in enforcement) was not really intended but it was just beyond us... luckily, the Federal Government decided to assist us in the form of the moratorium. Hopefully, we can together come up with a new set of rules and regulations to regularise bauxite mining.
Q: Clearly, many chains in the enforcement of this industry had been compromised.
A: The MACC (Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission) is doing a good job and Datuk Azam Baki (MACC investigations chief) has already mentioned that this (the arrests of several PTG officers) was just the tip of the iceberg and they were going to dig deeper. Let them do their job. The PTG officers who were arrested were not part of the enforcement team. Hopefully, by the end of the moratorium, we can do better when we come up with something solid so that the bauxite sector can be regulated for the benefit of all, especially the people.
I am not embarrassed if people say that I am apologetic... When we look back and dig up all the records, we found so many loopholes and weaknesses that we need to address.
Now we need to look at the laws and regulations, and also cross-jurisdictional overlapping of duties, lack of manpower and so on.
Q: If you could have done things differently...
A: If we had real control (over the sector) like Australia, I don’t think we would be facing this problem. But the environment has been degraded and I think it is up to the Federal Government now, the ball is in their court. I couldn’t do much. It is just like how the Federal Government helped the state government to tackle illegal farming in Cameron Highlands. We can handle the small-scale farmers who encroached the land to feed their children but we could not manage the big players. The Federal Government has the capacity to do this as proven in Cameron Highlands. Now we don’t see farmers encroaching on land any more because the National Security Council is still there. In this case, with federal assistance, I am confident the bauxite issue in Kuantan will be settled.
When you asked me what we are going to do with the areas being illegally mined... I don’t yet have a definite answer, because based on the current law, if illegal mining is on private land then we can take action using the National Land Code... If it is on state land, we can just raid the area but in most instances, when we go on raid the operators run away.
Q: You know how that sounds?
A: In a way, it sounds odd that you can’t take action against the illegal miners because they run away, but that is really the case. After giving it a lot of thought, I can say though we can improve setting the laws straight.
Meaning to say we can not only seize the machines, but we must try as hard as we can to arrest and catch the culprits, probably with the help of the police and the other agencies. We have not been able to arrest a single illegal miner despite the many illegal mines.
Q: You expect the federal agencies to be here for as long as the sector is active?
A: They can. The issue is just about mobilising their personnel like what they are doing in Camerons. The NSC is still there although, not in full force. So in Kuantan, the Federal Government can continue to make their presence felt. Once we (federal and state governments) come up with the rules and regulations, it will be easy to execute the law.
Q: Do you see any cross-jurisdictional issues that could hamper enforcement?
A: When the Federal Government came in to assist, we saw where we could improve. This includes making sure that lorries transporting bauxite are fitted with speed limiters. At the end of the day, both sides will come up with a comprehensive plan to make sure there are no environmental issues that could affect the people. We are also looking at the issues of titles and subtitles. We are embarking on a very big exercise to find a holistic approach to the sector and solutions. There are a lot of loopholes and weaknesses in laws regulating the sector.
Take Felda Bukit Goh, for example. We have to look at the Group Settlement Act because they may have the permission of Felda. But the National Land Code comes under the state’s jurisdiction. Basically, what I am saying is that finding a holistic approach is not easy, but we have to do it.
Q: Will you put it on record that once the moratorium on the bauxite-mining sector is lifted, the problems will not recur?
A: I am very, very confident that when the Federal Government comes in and we have the necessary manpower and legal tools, it will not be an issue.
Q: What’s next if standards are not met after the moratorium?
A: Now, if they (industry players) still don’t take the opportunity to make amends and the situation doesn’t change, or if it gets worse... it will be up to the NRE to make the call. We will tag along, even if it means shutting down mining activities in Kuantan. The NRE has said, if they fail to rectify the problems, the moratorium will be extended, if that, too, is going nowhere, then it is up to the Federal Government to decide. Although people say that mining is under the state government, Putrajaya has the veto power. Approved Permits (APs) are issued by the Federal Government. If they shut the exit, nothing can leave the port. The nod for export doesn’t come from me.
Q: We ran a story that while there are 36 legal mines, 200 more land areas are being mined illegally. It just sounds impossible for the relevant authority to not see this.
A: Take the example of illegal mining activities in Bukit Goh. I advised them to wait for Felda to give its permission and the state’s approval, but they went ahead and mined. We failed somewhere along the chain. Some parties must have been compromised, as otherwise, we could have controlled it. I know the question is.. it is simple, the lorries are coming in and out, so where are the relevant agencies? On our part, what can we do? They dig at night. Operations by these illegal miners start at 1am and they leave at 4am.
Q: You took us to the same spot in Bukit Goh where we went four months ago. Obviously, mining only stopped following the moratorium. The thing is, being right next to the highway, it is not even hidden.
A: We are not staying still.
Nazri: We seized 51 lorries, 30 excavators and one giant tipper dumper.
Adnan: It is puzzling not only to you but also to me. (Adnan paused for five minutes then took a break.)
Adnan: I have been asking myself, too, there are so many illegal miners and why couldn’t they have been reined in?
Nazri: What these illegal miners did was simple, they came, piled the minerals in their lorries and left. They have tontos all over and moved faster then we could. By the time we reached (illegal mines), there was nobody there. So we seized what we could. If you talk about sealing off these lands, it means the officers we have with us will man the place round the clock.
Q: If the state has no problem with a fully transparent bauxite-mining sector, will you have any problems with the MACC sitting in the federal-state taskforce to find the best solutions?
A: Any time. I would love for them to be in. In fact, this is not the first time I have invited them to be together with us. I am very open.
Q: You spoke about increased royalty once the sector resumes. Will you consider setting aside some for pollution mitigating efforts?
A: When all the loopholes are plugged, we will able to receive extra revenue for the state, But to say we are going to use the money to mitigate environmental problems caused by the miners... it is not right. We will come up with regulations to make sure when approval is given, they need to pay certain deposits. Currently, it is RM300,000, but we may have to increase it to RM500,000. The bigger the acreage, the bigger the deposit will be. Also, we are looking at making it compulsory for summonses to be settled before the lorries are allowed to move.
Q: Your state is losing a lot of money due to leakages.
A: During the moratorium, we will hold many discussions at the state level and after that, at the federal level, to seek their help. This includes the collection of royalty, which involves many parties — the Minerals and Geosciences Department (MGD), Customs and the port. The revenue collection system now is nothing like the other mineral sectors where royalty is collected before concessionaires can fell the trees. In this case, APs are issued to the miners to export first... then they go to the MGD for the royalty payment. This is a bit odd, no? So I want to suggest that royalty be paid before the export. It is unthinkable but that is the practice now.
At the end of the day effective enforcement is paramount.